Some strange petroglyphs were recorded in 1673 by a French missionary named Father Marquette:
"While skirting some rocks, which by their height and length inspire awe, we saw upon one of them two painted monsters which at first made us afraid, and upon which the boldest savages dare not long rest their eyes. They are as large as a calf: they have horns on their heads like those of a deer, a horrible look, red eyes, a beard like a tiger's, a face somewhat like a man's, a body covered with scales, and so long a tail that it winds all around the body, passing above the head and going back between the legs, ending in a fish's tail. Green, red, and black are the three colors composing the picture." http://www.ancestral.com/cultures/north_america/algonquian.html
These figures, alas, disappeared and no drawings or photographs survived, if, indeed, any were made. By 1838 only one figure was left, and in 1847 the entire rock face was removed for use as construction material.
After years of research on these effigies, I would propose that this strange image described hundreds of years ago is of the Fort Ancient culture "Waterspirit." (view videos here)
Waterspirits were said to rule the underworld and were not inherently bad or good but could be either or, depending on the circumstances. As a result, offerings were reported to be given to the waterspirits by lakes and rivers where the ancients believed they were and demanded respect in the form of offerings.
Although we find many references to Waterspirits in Wisconsin, we actually have evidence of this same belief system at work in Pennsylvania.
(http://www.orgsites.com/pa/redbankarch/_pgg4.php3)It is important to remember that Waterspirits can (and usually do) assume the shape and form of an animal and even humans, but have their own distinctive theriomorphic shape, (that which was described so clearly above by Marquette,) having a nearly human face, antlers, a scaly body or an endless tail which from my own research is usually drawn in a spiral shape or long and straight. This makes it hard sometimes to pick out a Waterspirit from another form made out of earth or in a petroglyph so long ago - that is, until you realize that if the form is meant to show an animal with Waterspirit mixed with it, there will always be a feature of the waterspirit that you can identify clearly, such as the horns or the spiraled or elongated tail or both.
Another important note is that all of these petroglyphs and mounds have the same style in which they are depicted. In other words....mounds are drawn as full body outlines with very little drawn inside them, the petroglyphs are drawn the same and could actually be thought to be drawings of the mounds themselves- as opposed to stick figures or highly detailed or ornate drawings.
For example, the great Serpent Mound in Ohio which is a serpent with horns and a spiraled tail. The mound is 1/4 of a mile long and is credited to the same Fort Ancient culture that made many effigy mounds in the region for its creation.
There is one specific animal that the waterspirit seems to have been "merged" with more than any other however, and that was a panther.
"There is another representation of one that has a strangely feline appearance, looking like a panther in the fore parts, but having a huge serpentine tail that can wrap round an entire hill. " - Richard L. Dieterle, University of Minnesota,(http://hotcakencyclopedia.com/)
Mound Shapes
(Picture made available by The Sauk County Historical Society, Wisocnsin)
(Picture made available by The Sauk County Historical Society, Wisconsin)
On a side note: When looking at the petroglyphs at Safe Harbor, I must add that both horned men clearly are making motions of raising or lowering their arms..."The Waterspirit of Green Lake created whirlpools by swirling her arms up. Those who did not make the proper offerings, would be sucked under.” Charles Edward Brown, Wisconsin Indian Place Legends (Madison: Works Progress Administration, Wisconsin, 1936)
I would suggest then that the petroglyphs were made in a way to portray the wish that that the waters be calmed by the waterpirit/men, or that people should be aware that the waterspirit is making rough waters and that an offering is needed....
Opposition/Balance...
The Fort Ancients believed that the Waterspirit had an enemy that was never far away, that was said to hunt the waterspirit and eat of it's flesh. This was the Thunderbird. Although the Thunderbird is a popular creature of many belief systems in North America, when it is shown with a Waterspirit counterpart and in the design we have described, I would propose that it is being used as a part of the Fort Ancient belief system.
"It is one of the old traditions that when the Thunder Birds or Winaxí first appeared, they lit fires (by lightning) somewhat indiscriminately, striking everything they came across, even to the Waktcéxi or Spirits of the Water and Under Earth, whom they kill and eat of -- that is the Indians say whenever the lightning kills or blasts anything, they "eat it"; ... that is the substance is extracted and taken up. They say that whenever a hill is struck by lightning ... it is because a Waktcéxi is concealed under it (that is in its water-springs) whom the Thunders thus kill and eat." Foster, Foster's Indian Record, vol. 1, #2,: p. 3, col.3, quoting the interpreter Menaige (ca. 1850).
In fact continuing with this opposing force/balance theme - we can see that just as there are Waterspirits merged with men, we also find Thunderbirds merged with men as well:
Mounds in Wisconsin
(click to enlarge above image to read chart)*note the reference to BIRDMEN
by Sauk County Historical Society
Using this thought process, if we look closer at that same Waterspirit that was found at Parker's Landing in PA above, we see that the Thunderbird images are all around the Waterspirit, and as a result the lifeline/hunting motif seems to be very fitting. This petroglyph taken in context again with being on rocks right along a stream that could have had made travel dangerous seems to send a clear message that the artist(s) were calling for a "calming of the waters" for safe passage.
(http://www.orgsites.com/pa/redbankarch/_pgg4.php3)As I continue to study the mounds and the petroglyphs of the Waterspirits and the Thunderbirds, I have come to believe that there was a "balancing act" that was being used in these works. By this I mean that if the ancient travellers were in fear of dangerous waters, they would try to level out the strong power of the Waterspirit by using the opposing force, the Thunderbird, causing a sort of balance. Thus the more Thunderbirds depicted on the rock, the greater the power of the Waterspirit they were trying to balance out.
Using this theory I have looked at many mounds and petroglyphs over the past few years and without failure it seems that this formula to create balance seems to be in practice as opposed to the popular belief that these images were created to honor any specific spirit or god.
For example - the largest Thunderbird mounds that I know of can be found at the Mendota Mental Health Institute, adjacent to Governor's Island on Lake Mendota...“Waterspirits can be very dangerous, creating whirlpools that have sucked under many a canoe. In the deep water off Governor's Island in Lake Mendota, there lay a den of Waterspirits who caused great disturbances in the water and overturned canoes"- Charles Edward Brown, Wisconsin Indian Place Legends (Madison: Works Progress Administration, Wisconsin, 1936)
This also seems to have been done in reverse at the great Serpent Mound in Ohio. This mound is placed on a place probably believed to have been VERY strong in Sky Spirit (Thunderbird) since it was built in a huge jut of land that was thrown up into the air after an impact of a meteorite. Thus - if this piece of land were the place where lightening often struck or was believed to be the cause of storms, tornadoes, and other sky-related dangers to the ancients, they very might well have placed the huge horned serpent with a coiled tail on this place in hopes to create a balance that would make their lives more safe.
I could go on - but now that you have the information, I would suggest that you take this and try it out for yourself when trying to explain these motifs that include a Waterspirit and Thunderbird in them and see if it helps you to understand what these pieces of art from so long ago were trying to say.
Questions that still remain:
The tribe referred to as the Winnebagos by the early Europeans in Wisconsin and presently who refer to themselves as "Ho-Chunk"- are said to be the relatives of the Fort Ancient culture who made the great effigy mounds in Wisconsin, Iowa, Ohio and Illinois. Although I cannot say that they founded the belief of the waterspirit and the thunderbirds - I can tell you that it is deeply imbedded in their belief system. As you look at the Winnebago clan circle - you will find the thunderbird clan at the top as well as the waterspirit clan at the bottom.
You can also find the Waterspirit and Thunderbird heavily represented in their region not only in the effigy mounds, but in their legends as well:
I have to believe that the same Fort Ancient Culture must have made the petroglyphs in PA as well. However, very little is known about the people that lived in PA and along the Susquehanna River prior to the Susquehannocks. Still more is unknown about the relationships, trade routes, and reach that a culture such as the Fort Ancients must have had as represented by petroglyphs and mounds that are identical yet over 1,000 miles apart.I invite you to send me your thoughts on this posting as I realize that it is something that has never been reported before that I am aware of and believe that we all can bring even more research together and possibly find even more associations and important things to share.
We at SRAC consider it our mission to continue to research our prehistory, to share what we know publicly, and to invite others to join the conversation.
It's OUR history, don't let it fade away.
Here are some comments on some of the points raised in this article.
ReplyDelete“I would propose that this strange image described hundreds of years ago is of the Fort Ancient culture “Waterspirit.”
These images, which fell within the territory (if not the time period) of the Illini are what that tribe called a “Piasa”. As I remarked at http://hotcakencyclopedia.com/ho.EarthmakerSendsRucewe.html#Anchor-1135882 Prof. Russell viewed the one remaining image of the set in the XIXth century. He gave a detailed description which included wings. Pictures of a Piasa type of creature are seen in Mississippian culture, which is contemporaneous with your Fort Ancient culture, and the two may be related (identical ?). The Piasa is a storm spirit, and therefore is the counterpart of the Thunderbird, yet apart from the wings, it is in almost every respect like a Waterspirit. It appears to unite the two concepts into one, no longer drawing a distinction between the waters of the earth and those of the sky. The Piasa is probably best analogized to the Chinese dragon. The Thunderbird is a bird. So in addressing the problem of Waterspirits, some cognizance needs to be made of the problem of the Piasa.
“Waterspirits were said to rule the underworld and were not inherently bad or good but could be either or, depending on the circumstances.”
The Winnebago recognize two tribes of Waterspirits, the good (-pin), and the bad (-cicik). Bad Waterspirits have spotted bodies. Elsewhere, when a tribe of spirits is said to be “bad” it is because they have put human beings on their menu. However, the Winnebago word for Waterspirit is Waktcexi, which means, “the Difficult Ones”, reflecting the fact that as a tribe they always pose a difficulty to humans who seek blessings from them, sometimes rather like the genie in the bottle.
“For example, the great Serpent Mound in Ohio which is a serpent with horns and a spiraled tail.”
I don’t see it that way at all. To me it looks like a serpent with gaping jaws about to swallow an egg. If I had to guess at its meaning, I would say that eclipse mythology may be the place to look. The sun-as-egg is known from a number of cultures in the world. That an eclipse can be a momentary swallowing is also known elsewhere. It is said that these gaping jaws (or whatever they are) align with the summer solstice setting point of the sun (I hope that they made the necessary adjustments for the precession of the equinoxes). The solstice is analogous to an eclipse. The full eclipse would be the winter solstice where the sun is weakest, the full sun is the summer solstice where it is the strongest. The summer solstice is the very moment at which the sun is about to decline, so it exactly corresponds to the moment that the evil serpent spirit is about to attack and begin swallowing the “egg”. This is pure speculation, but there are not an infinite number of possibilities. Other things could be said about the correspondence of the spiral and the egg in the context of the sun.
“I would suggest when merged with a man, that it could very well be that they are representing a medicine-man or shaman who had the powers of this spirit. Whatever the intent, the powers of the Waterspirit are clearly represented.”
This is possible, but I would not go so far as to say that Waterspirit powers are “clearly represented”. It seems to be a pair of blunt horns (or ears) that are present, but nothing else otherwise. These forms are seen in very early pictographs all over N. America, I believe, or at least in the upper Midwest. Horns in world mythology usually represent fecundity, a power inherent in water as a life-giver, but also in other things (see the horned helmets of the German tribes, for instance). The Celtic horned gods are not Waterspirits, for instance. In Winnebago thought, a Waterspirit could be born as a man, I think, but like other incarnated spirits, he would seem to be completely human except for various hints of his powers.
[Illustrations of Thunderbirds]
I don’t see how you can differentiate between silhouettes of hawks and a Thunderbird. In the white-on-black panel, what I see is 10 bears with unidentifiable symbols.
In the illustrations associated with Bird Mound, I am convinced that what is shown is not a bird-man, but a bird with a forked tail. A bird matching this silhouette is the American Swallow-Tail Kite, the original black hawk. Among the Winnebago Black Hawk is the chief of the Thunderbirds. This kite is the most aerodynamic of all raptors, and was common in Wisconsin until the 1850’s when it was all but wiped out by white hunters.
“we see that the Thunderbird images are all around the Waterspirit, and as a result the lifeline/hunting motif seems to be very fitting.”
The stylized picture of a turtle right in front of the creature’s face helps establish its connection to water. Apropos your thesis, in the upper Midwest, in any case, Turtle is the special spirit of war. So the turtle could symbolize war between Thunders and Waterspirits. The large creature has cervid antlers but the claws of a predator. It also has an anthropomorphic face, another feature of Waterspirits (which you don’t emphasize, I think). The cross-like patterns seem to be birds, except that there is a composite symbol located just behind the Waterspirit’s hind leg that makes me wonder. There is what appears to be a forked-tailed bird toward the lower left and next to it is a stick-man, a presumed human being. To the upper left of the forked-tailed bird is a branching shape that might represent lightning, as might the form at the extreme right center, although they are not shown coming from, or going to, any figure. [Concerning that 6-pronged figure shaped like two birds facing each other -- below it are a circle and to its right is a crescent. It is tempting to see in the latter two, the sun and the moon. The 6-pronged figure is centered over the sun, and could represent a span of 6 as 3 + 3. As pertains to the luni-solar count of time, this would be 3 moons from equinox to solstice, and 3 moons “back” from solstice to equinox. The left prong is a stylized bird going in one direction, the other end is a stylized bird going in the other direction (the sun and moon “fly”). The whole line represents 6 moons, the span of the warm season and also the span of the cold season. During the time of snow, Thunderbirds do not shoot lightning (as you would know being from PA). Also water freezes over. So the six months in question would be those of the summer (equinox to equinox). This is the time when Thunders attack Waterspirits with lightning. As spirits of the clouds, the Thunders eat the waters of the earth (the Waterspirits), as that is their sustenance, the stuff out of which clouds are made. Evaporation takes place most heavily during the summer months, and it is said Waterspirits sun themselves on clear days (cloudless, and therefore, Thunder-less). Rather than lightning, the branching form under the supposed moon might be the branching tributaries of rivers, which the cervid style horns are designed to symbolize. This would be appropriate inasmuch as the world over, the moon controls the element of water. I would fain point out, that there is no evidence for this explanation, and it may be nothing more than seeing faces in the clouds.]
“As I continue to study the mounds and the petroglyphs of the Waterspirits and the Thunderbirds, I have come to believe that there was a "balancing act" that was being used in these works”
You’re probably right.
“By this I mean that if the ancient travelers were in fear of dangerous waters, they would try to level out the strong power of the Waterspirit by using the opposing force, the Thunderbird, causing a sort of balance. Thus the more Thunderbirds depicted on the rock, the greater the power of the Waterspirit they were trying to balance out.”
About this, I’m sceptical. I am not sure that this is why petroglyphs are created. In the Winnebago story, the Twins kill a Waterspirit and make a rock painting to commemorate the event. People might do this to honor the gods with a monument. There is a very famous myth that is also very widespread, and which I related at http://hotcakencyclopedia.com/ho.Traveler%26ThunderbirdWar.html It illustrates the dilemma of human beings caught in a war between two tribes of spirits to both of whom humanity owes worship. There is a fight between a prominent Thunder and a prominent Waterspirit, the latter of which tricks the human into giving him his support, and the small contribution of the human throws the even match into the Waterspirit’s favor, resulting in the death of the Thunder. It is a Greek tragedy in which the human loses in either case. At least one human being appears in the scene. In picturing a Waterspirit, a human runs the danger of alienating the Thunders, which could cost him dearly. The balance may be an attempt to prevent offending either side of the opposition. Then again it may be like a myth and illustrate theological truths, not in words, but in pictures that act like words. One would think that such a picture would do nothing to offset the obligation to offer tobacco to the Waterspirit of the locale to secure safe passage. I don’t think that people made this picture as a way to short-cut sacrifices.
“Although I cannot say that they [the Winnebago] founded the belief of the waterspirit and the thunderbirds - I can tell you that it is deeply imbedded in their belief system.”
These idea are certainly not Siouan. As I recollect, for instance, among Siouan tribes, where the Winnebago have a Waterspirit Clan, others have the Beaver Clan, which is in historical times a sub-clan of the Waterspirit Clan among the Winnebago. I believe that they derived these ideas from the Algonquian tribes that surrounded them (Sauk, Fox, Menominee, Anishanaabe). This fits well with PA examples, as there were no doubt, I think, Algonquian tribes in that area.
“As you look at the Winnebago clan circle - you will find the thunderbird clan at the top as well as the waterspirit clan at the bottom.”
There are several contrasting clan circles extant. However, in practice, the Bear or Soldier lodge was placed opposite that of the chief, who was of the Thunderbird Clan. Yet in Thunderbird ideology, their counterpart is not the powerful Bear Clan (in charge of discipline and the enforcement of rules), but the Waterspirit Clan, which was recognized as the Chief Clan of the Lower or Earth Moiety, just as the Thunder Clan is the Chief Clan of the Upper Moiety. (I should point out that in your diagram the Pigeon Clan seems to be given the designation “Warrior”. That actually belongs to the Hawk Clan, which in historical times was always called the “Warrior Clan”.)
“I have to believe that the same Fort Ancient Culture must have made the petroglyphs in PA as well.”
There is no need to stick your neck out on this. There were plenty of cultures that believed in Waterspirits and Thunderbirds. In historical time, some could belong to the Plains Culture, and other to the Woodland Culture, but it hardly made much difference. The Crow and Hidatsa, for instance, believe in much the same thing in their religions (as they but recently separated), but the former live in teepees and hunt on the high plains; the latter are sedentary and practice agriculture.
“Still more is unknown about the relationships, trade routes, and reach that a culture such as the Fort Ancients must have had as represented by petroglyphs and mounds that are identical yet over 1,000 miles apart.”
Take a look on a map at the distribution of Algonquian tribes. It may not be necessary to ascribe these kinds of mounds to one culture.
Richard -
ReplyDeleteI still believe the Marquet description was of a waterspirit and will agree to disagree....he says they even had three different waterspirit colors - which I did not go into for fear of overwhelming the audience - but you did....green red and black...
This is from your website:
"Waterspirits can assume the form of any animal [6], the snake being particularly common [6.1], but Waktcexi have their own natural and distinctive theriomorphic form. It is said that "the Waktcéxi, the water spirits or gods, good and bad, ... have each the form of scaly, four-footed beasts, with horns like an ox, and a tail indefinitely long, but with nearly human faces....Waterspirits are also differentiated by their color. The Red Waterspirits not only shoot jets of water, but shoot geysers of fire upward at their enemies. [12] A green (tco) Waterspirit created the Wisconsin Dells [13], but after diving into Devil's Lake, he perpetrated many evils against the human race. [14] The Waterspirit of the sacred color white, founded the Hotcâk Waterspirit Clan. [15] Another White Waterspirit bestowed the blessings of his body upon the Medicine Rite. [15.1] White Waterspirits, at least, have round, red armpits."
With that I want to commend you on well you are read in the Winnebago folklore. I am amazed and love your website!
Yet, beacuase your area of study is not on the mpounds, I fear that you might not be aware of the significance that the mound shapes and the petroglyphs that match (so much so that they could be argued to be drawings of the mounds!) are so unique that I know of no other culture that made these in this fashion (outlines with very little or no details and no stick figures)and would ask anyone that had found another man mound shape specifically, to please send it to us!
The shapes of waterspirits and thunderbirds DO vary outside the fort ancients quite a bit and I have seen these too..and that brings me back to the uniqueness of these specific motifs I describe here....and how strange it is to find them 1,000 miles apart....
The mounds that were with the bears on the one image you claim are indistinguishable were called thunderbird mounds way before my time...and I have seen MANY in that very shape in Wisconsin and Iowa that are called Thunderbird mounds - and are perfect matches to what you think is indistinguishable ....
??
Lastly, there are two popular beliefs on the bird man mounds...one is they are bird men - which I agree with and one is they are forked tail thunderbirds which you agree with! when you see one in a mound though the "tail is much too long and resembles legs from my experience...)
( ;
I appreciate your website and your feedback sir and I hope that we can keep this dialogue running as I think it really helpful to include ALL thoughts on this stuff and ALL are invited to be a part! I hope I answered some of your questions and clarified some things that I know may not have been clear enough..but I did worry that I was running too long ....
It probably doesn’t matter too much whether the forked structure on a bird is its tail or a pair of legs. If it is a tail, then it is probably of a bird particularly well associated with the Thunderbirds anyway. The Winnebago in historical times have spoken of the Thunders coming in human form. They are baldheaded and wear a wreath of arbor vitae. They are not thought of as being a composite human-bird, but are either one or the other. However, you might want to look into the Mississippian “Hawk-Man” who is such a composite. Since the Fort Ancient culture is at least associated with the Mississippian culture, there may be something to be gleaned here. I don’t think that the Hawk Man is a Thunderbird, though.
ReplyDeleteAs to the colors of the Waterspirits -- the Winnebago have a color code, and divide the totem animals in accord with it. For instance, the four great Bear spirits are White Bear, Red Bear, Black Bear, and Blue Bear. They are also associated with the cardinal directions. It is not unexpected to find red, white, and blue/green (tco) Waterspirits, although I have not yet encountered one that is black. I don’t think you could use the colors that a single Piasa was painted as evidence for its being a Waterspirit. Also, the color of a Waterspirit is solid, except as noted among the Bad Waterspirits, who are said to be speckled. The matter of the Piasa is serious, though. The Thunderbird - Waterspirit opposition is based upon an opposition between the waters of the heaven and the waters of the earth (lower world). The Piasa, having wings, and being called a “storm god”, unites both these opposites, so it cannot be called a “Waterspirit” in the sense that we are using these terms.
On the bear mounds -- I thought you meant that the bear-shaped figures were the Thunders, but it appears that you agree that these are bears, and that you are referring to the tri-pronged shapes as Thunderbirds. They well may be. That others have called them “Thunderbird mounds” is not an argument. Original errors are often perpetuated by people simply accepting the Received Opinion without keeping alive an element of scepticism.
Since I only have the little description that I posted I have nothing more to add - and obviously concede that I cannot say that I know what the Marquette petroglyphs were for sure...but the description sure sounded like our waterspirit friend...I find it interesting that the Mississipians had another form so close but relative to the Thunderers...that might be just it though...the merging of the two....
ReplyDeleteRichard - What did you think of the Parker's Landing petroglyph?
Also I added the chart from the Sauk Historical Society in the section about the Bird Men just to let you know I didn't make that up!
( ;
Deb
Apart from what I said in speculation about the sun and moon, the main subject of the petroglyph does seem to be a Waterspirit. The only counter-indication is the tail, but there are some pictures of Waterspirits in which the tail is not portrayed in the cannonical style. On the rock face, this may be due merely to the space available to the composition.
ReplyDeleteI can make sense of the sun and moon glyphs, if that’s what they are, but “making sense” and “prooving” are two different things. A fundamental question would be useful to answer -- why do people make rock carvings? In my mythic material on the Twins, at least one myth has the Twins commemorating the events of their myth in stone, so this seems to be a plausible reason advanced by traditionalist people for their being such carvings. Also the study of the Gottschall painting suggests that it too is such a commemoration. I think your idea that it at least in part represents an attack of the Thunders on a great Waterspirit is sustainable, and you have a good enough argument to make it plausible. Is it a myth, perhaps something like the story of the human and the battle between the Thunderbird and the Waterspirit Traveler? Are the sun and moon glyphs part of the esoteric meaning of the story? Are all the glyphs made at one time? I suspect not.
Another consideration – the Winnebago speak of sacred sites where it is possible to get blessings from particular spirits. Such sites are spoken of in relation to the Night Spirits and also the Twins. Is this such a site? Is this carving a kind of idol where the power, presence, and blessing of the Waterspirit is more readily evoked in a vision quest?
Thank you for sending me the feedback on the Parker's Landing waterspirit. Yur immense knowledge and research you share on this is astounding to me and I am honored that you have shared some of it here for this discussion, Richard. Thank you again.
ReplyDeleteWhile I understand what you are saying about sacred sites, because the lifeline is showing and the thunderers are seemingly the aggressors surrounding the waterspirit at Parker's Landing, I doubt this is a site to evoke the waterspirit other than to kill it...now if you ask me if some mounds are to evoke a sprit...or even other petroglyphs at some sites are for that matter, I would have to think more about it...Just not this one....not with all that going on on it that seems to say otherwise at least in my opinion.
Personally I think that there are as many reasons for petroglypghs as there are for many mounds, etc...but you have to keep their belief system in mind (this is why your research is so helpful!)as well as where it is and what else is near it.
I also agree that stories and legends were probably the reason for some other petroglyphs to be drawn...
All I can say is that I am only comfortable talking about the petroglyphs that I described and the mounds that I have actually experienced for myself. The Safe Harbor petroglyphs at least in the in the 1930's were said to be in treacherous waters and removing them was very dangerous because of it...to me it all fits for this petroglyph as well...they wanted to weaken the waterspirit by adding thunderers to balance it out.
The most important info that I feel my research has revealed here is that the man and bird man mounds DO have matches (or reproductions carved of them) on rocks on the Susquehanna River in PA - 1000 miles away,,, there is noway to explain the artwork as anything other than that they are the same...and I agree with you that the people referred to as Algonquin are the obvious clue but in relation to your Winnebagos because they have been dubbed as relation to the Fort Ancient Culture who are said to be the creators of those mounds.
As for the "balance theory" I have proposed, I hope that others will do as I said and test it and let me know what they think. I believe this is also very significant but will have to wait to see what comes of it...
I know that certain rock paintings or carvings were used in hunting magic (see my remarks under “Herok’a”). Apparently, they would actually shoot an arrow at the painting of a deer on a cave wall. In the case of this Waterspirit, we could hardly suppose that human hunters were out to kill it, since it is a supernatural being. Portraying it as being slain could hardly be conducive to navigational security. Nor is it clear that a human could slay a Waterspirit without special powers, such as being a spirit incarnate. In most myths, the Waterspirit actually offers his body to the supplicant, who then is able to slay the Waterspirit and use his body for medicine. In myths, a human that abides with Thunders can often successfully hunt Waterspirits, but these humans are mythological characters. Also, what happens to a slain Waterspirit is not clear. It is a spiritual and supernatural being so its death is merely the death of an incarnation. I don’t think that anyone believed that there was a body of water that was not governed by a Waterspirit. One could perhaps get rid of an incarnation, but not of the presence of Waterspirits in connection with a body of water. This is because the Waterspirit was the spiritual essence of water itself. Killing a Waterspirit (without its permission) would be considered a sin. Earthmaker severely censures the Twins for having killed Waterspirits that he, Earthmaker, had created himself, and therefore, for having done damage to Earthmaker’s creation.
ReplyDeleteWhat I am suggesting is that IF the “life-line” demonstrates a hunting context, then it is the Thunderbirds that are hunting the Waterspirits in the context of a myth. There is not only the myth of the human who tipped the balance in a struggle between a Thunder and a Waterspirit, but stories of humans living with Thunderbirds who helped them in hunting them. (Apparently Waterspirits are invisible to Thunders, but not to humans.) If such a myth is portrayed in stone, it may be that the site was a place to obtain Thunderbird blessings. I don’t think anyone could support the idea that the depiction is designed to bring ruin down upon the Waterspirit. The myth of the human who tipped the balance is a story of his demise, a demise that teaches the lesson that alienating a supernatural force will always lead to the destruction of the perpetrator.
Question to you – what do you think of the disc and crescent to the lower right of the Waterspirit?
Again I am no specialist in petroglyphs or Winnebago myths, so please do tell us.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing I will say is that I think she it is important to look at where the petroglyphs appear and what is located near it.
http://www.orgsites.com/pa/redbankarch/_pgg4.php3
My point for the blog again was only to point out the significance on context to the mounds that they match.
So what does the shapes you describe represent in Winnebago myth?
The sun and moon, which I speculated about above. In Winnebago cults, a deerskin with a red disc painted on it was offered to the sun (it looks exactly like the Japanese flag). The moon is represented by a green crescent.
ReplyDeleteI just now looked at the whole pictograph, and it seems rather chaotic. I am not confident that anyone can make sense of it, assuming that it isn't simply an agglomeration independent pictures. But it does seem like a lot of trouble to go through to for any capricious reason.
The Winnebago drawing of a Waterspirit that you show at the top of the page has something like a life-line running from the head to the anus. Also it has something sausage-like hanging down from its should to its front legs. I think that this must be its scent glans, which were greatly valued as medicine. The "life-line" in the pictograph extends outside the body outline, and may actually define something on the outside of the body as shown on the Winnebago drawing. Therefore, it may be that the loop in it occurring over the front legs may represent its valued scent pouch.